Hi Guys, this is Lindsay, your host for the untethered with Lindsay Tuttle NP podcast, where we go deep on truly becoming untethered in your life and health and experiencing exponential freedom. We have the radical and uncensored conversations you have been craving and give you the tools for expansion and growth. I’m so glad that you are here and I can’t wait to connect with you.

Hey friends. I am so excited to have you meet today’s guest. I found her through Instagram earlier this year and I have just been stalking her page ever since, looking forward to chatting with her. I have Dr. Laura Anderson here. She is a therapist, trauma resolution, and recovery coach, writer, educator, and creator who specializes in complex trauma with a focus on domestic violence, sexualized violence, and religious trauma.

Laura has a private practice in Nashville, Tennessee, and is the founder and director of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery, an online coaching company where she and the other practitioners work with clients who have experienced high demand, high control religions, adverse religious experiences, cults, and religious trauma.

Laura also co founded the Religious Trauma Institute in 2019, with the goal of providing trauma informed resources, consultation and training to clinicians and other helping professionals who work with the religious trauma survivors. Her first book, When Religion Hurts You, Healing from Religious Trauma and the Impact of High Control Religion is being released by Brazos Press on October 17th, 2023, which is by the time this goes live, I think this will have already passed. You’ll have to get the book then, right? Everybody needs to get the book. I’m excited for this. And she resides with her dog Phoebe in Nashville, Tennessee. Thanks so much, Laura, for being on. I’m so excited to have you.

Yes, thank you so much for having me. It’s a true delight to be here. And even Phoebe is making a little bit of an appearance.

Oh, yes, I get to see Phoebe. Oh, it’s so perfect. I love it. I love it. Yeah, it’s so special. You know, I think I was saying to you, I came upon your work, just, you know, maybe it had come on my feed. But, you know, I work with clients really on digging into emotional and metaphysical layers when it comes to health issues, when it comes to blocks that they’re experiencing. And I often see a big component come up with religious experiences and spiritual wellbeing. And I think it often is something that many people are not self aware is part of what’s going on. And I took great interest in it just because of my own experience with religion growing up and kind of my curiosity and being kind of, feeling like I couldn’t have that curiosity.

And also, interestingly, my husband’s background, he actually, uh, his familial line, his mom and grandparents had actually been part of the Amish. So it’s been very interesting to hear and get to know that culture a bit better and just some, some observations there. So I’m curious, how did you even come to this work, Dr. Laura, because it’s kind of a unique, uh, approach and unique perspective?

Yeah. Um, well, you know, my professional work definitely stems from my own personal experiences. Um, and that’s kind of across the board, everything that I specialize in. I feel like religious trauma kind of was like an oopsie. Um, um, I, I did not grow up in the South, but that is where I currently reside. And I would have clients who would come into my office explaining different things that they had undergone that weren’t typically considered, at least back in the day, like cult, like practices and behaviors. You know, we would hear about these very extreme things that would happen in the name of God or religion or whatnot.

Um, and that’s what people called kind of spiritual abuse, religious trauma. But I was, people were kind of meandering into my office saying like, hey, I’m having these responses. I go to the store and all of a sudden there’s this like music that’s playing and I’m back in church and I’m feeling guilty and ashamed of all these things. It’s a lot of flashbacks. I, as a professional started to notice symptoms of trauma that were popping up different physiological things that were happening. And at the same time in tandem, I was also in my own process of what a lot of people call deconstructing their faith. I had been at it for many years at that point. Um, but was also recognizing in myself how those messages were, had become embodied and how really there was that physiological component that I was having very negative adverse responses, you know, from what I would consider complex trauma.

I put religious trauma under that umbrella of complex trauma and and so I, I just kind of was, you know, working with it. As clients came to me, I wasn’t really advertising. You know, um, religion culturally in the United States is a very, it’s looked on as a very pro social or supportive factor in somebody’s life. And certainly it can be, um, but because of that, it’s not often talked about in terms of the harm that can happen or the control that is present or things, things that are adverse in nature.

And so there’s just not a lot of knowledge around it. Um, so I knew, I knew it was happening, um, but it really wasn’t until the 2016 election, um, where we started to see a lot of people on social media that were talking about a lot of confusion around certain political views. And people endorsing certain candidates or saying certain things about other candidates, where they’re like, this doesn’t entirely line up with what I’ve been taught my entire life.

And that’s a problem. And as I’m questioning that, I’m noticing all of these physiological reactions in my body, I’m noticing tons of shame. I’m noticing a lot of guilt. I’m noticing that I’m hypervigilant and fearful and panicked and, and all of these things. And we had social media at that time and people started talking about it on social media. And finding out, like, oh, I’m not the only person who has experienced these types of things. And so I think we were just kind of at a prime place culturally, um, even in the therapeutic world to go, hey, we have to take a look at this.

And so that was where I started becoming a bit more public about this is an area of specialty that I work with and was able to connect with various colleagues to, uh, create some resources and trainings and things like that. And then of course, eventually started my own company because I had like a four year long waiting list. And I was like, I can’t do that. I can’t keep putting people on this list. I was like, I need people to work with me. And so that’s where I founded the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery that really focuses a lot on religious trauma, um, with people who have that background as well as have advanced trauma training to be able to help people navigate through this.

Yeah, I mean, I love that you just highlighted, definitely social media has brought to light many things that maybe we didn’t realize we had going on and then we’re like, oh yeah, like I need to take a look at this. And definitely too, with these different occurrences between elections, or I was even just talking to someone about with 2020, just all the things that you’re still, we’re still healing and unraveling from 2020 and what that was.

Right.

And it just really starts to shine a light on areas that are unhealed or areas like you highlighted that really stood out just that guilt and shame that is held within the body. And where I see that as a someone who works with people with autoimmune and chronic illness, is that the guilt and shame truly is one of the root causes to the physical issue, if not the root cause. It just, it manifests in different ways for different people, but that shame and guilt is preventing people from fully being well. And yeah. And so I’m curious in your work, do you find that that is like a consistent theme that people come to you with? Is that guilt inducing?

Yeah, you know, I, yeah, I, I, I mentioned, uh, really brief. I put, I put religious trauma under the umbrella of complex trauma. And part of the reason I do that is because of the symptoms we see, um, that are, you know, when, like, if you have a client that you’re working with where you’re like, oh, there is trauma, but there’s also these like autoimmune disorders and like things like that. There’s so much research now that’s linking it all together of saying, like, oftentimes a person might experience an autoimmune or chronic pain or some sort of chronic disorder because of, you know, this psychological or emotional thing that’s happened, in the way that it’s lived in their bodies and been unable to escape it or unable to deal with it.

And it actually turns into that physiological conditions that we’re dealing with long term that may be able to be managed or may be able to even be alleviated. Or may not be. Like, depending on the person in the situation. And so I, I do see that with a lot of my clients because I am working under that more complex trauma realm. Um, a lot of my clients, a lot of the clients at my company are people that have been born into these systems, who have grown up in these systems, who have never known life outside of these systems. And so we’re talking then about that kind of consistent, persistent feelings of threat and overwhelmed with the inability to escape. Kind of always kind of in that sympathetic nervous system state of fight or flight or the parasympathetic nervous system state of freeze or fawn. And that is just simply their way of survival.

And so our body’s nervous system is designed to be able to fluctuate, but when it is on, when it’s stuck on, on, or stuck on off. That’s where we do start to see then over time, we’re having these more chronic issues and, um, and underneath all of them, again, then we go back to that trauma and shame, shame and trauma are so similar to one another in terms of how they manifest themselves in the body that, um, yeah, I mean, I think, in some ways, I’m like, yeah, we don’t even have to try to parse them apart. They’re, they’re almost like one in the same. Yeah.

Totally. And I’m curious with the people that come to you, do you find that they have an awareness that they have religious trauma or that they were in a cult or do you have to kind of help them see? Because I think, you know, when you’re when you’re in it or you’re growing up in it, like you said, you just, you just accept that as your truth. And so, it’s interesting because what I observed just knowing from what my husband has shared from that experience that, that he was, saw and experienced and, you know, when people actually start to question or leave, or I feel like I know a lot of friends who’ve recently left, um, different what they felt was, you know, whether it was a different church or religion. They just started to question or they started to, like, discover aspects of themselves that they, they wanted to learn more. And as they did that, they started realizing, wait, this is not what I thought it was.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I will say again, going back to social media a lot. Nowadays, we do have a lot more people that are coming in saying, hey, I read this thing. I listened to this video or whatnot. And this really seems to resonate with what I’ve been experiencing, uh, whether that’s past or present. And so maybe I needed to talk about this religious trauma thing, but I think that, you know, colloquially speaking, we’ve kind of talked about trauma as like these really big events that happened to us. It’s the car accident, it’s war, it’s sexualized violence, and certainly those things can result in trauma.

But there is less kind of colloquial understanding around, um, what we, what some people call small T traumas, which is, is that consistent, persistent, threat, overwhelm, inescapability that’s happening. And so oftentimes I find myself having to do a lot of education with my clients and helping them understand like, what is trauma actually? What is the body? What is the nervous system? How does it, how does it operate? How does trauma live inside of our bodies? And yeah, you may not have had this big thing happen where there was this big scary altar call or clergy sexual abuse, which those are traditionally kind of some of the things that people are like, oh, that’s religious trauma.

You know, when you were sexually abused by a clergy member, again, certainly it could result in that. But not, not necessarily and not only that, and it doesn’t have to be that extreme. So I do find that with a lot of my clients, there is, it’s not a convincing them that they, you know, that this is a diagnosis or anything like that, but it is helping them kind of look at the information and say, does this fit with your experience? Does this fit with what’s happening inside your body, um, as you’re navigating your life? And if so, so maybe we need to look at, you know, what is trauma and what are your experiences, so that we can live in a more integrated way?

Yeah, absolutely. And for anybody who is coming to you, do you find that there’s some initial steps that you feel like are most helpful for them to starting to identify just their experience, where they need to go from there? I know you mentioned helping them understand just what trauma is, is essential and how the nervous system works. Is that what you would say would be just those initial tools?

Yeah, you know, a lot of times when we’re working… i, well, I should clarify by saying I don’t subscribe to just one way or one modality of treatment. I believe everybody is different. And so what works for one person may or may not work for another person. I do tend to believe that when we’re looking at things like complex trauma, we have to take kind of a multidimensional approach in that we’re doing kind of the body centric. So body up therapeutic and coaching modalities as well as the head down. And so we really have to tackle it from both ends. Because a lot of times if you have somebody who’s lived in that consistent state of overwhelm, to jump into processing, you know, triggers and things like that, is going to flood them and they are going to be put back into a place of fight or flight or freeze or feeling really awful after your session.

So, I do think sometimes like tiptoeing in through the lens of like psychoeducation can often be helpful. There is something I found at least for the clients I work with having language to say, oh, this is what’s happening inside me. I’m not weird. There’s not something wrong with me. Um, that in and of itself can help alleviate some of those layers of shame. Um, because they know, like, this is not just some weakness within me that I’m just not able to shake these experiences and I’m not able to shake these beliefs. And so I think that that can sometimes help, and that can often then open the door to being able to be, um, more like in those faces of resolving trauma.

Now, again, you know, I’m a, I’m a big proponent of going as slow as we need to go, as slow as your nervous system needs to go. Um, I often tell my clients, the slower we go now, the faster we can go later. We don’t want to overwhelm your nervous system and go at a pace that’s just like intolerable. That’s what you’ve lived at your whole life. So we kind of need to back up and go a bit slower, which most of my clients is, cognitively hate, um, but experientially are like, oh, okay. Yeah. This is, this is definitely what I need to do.

Yeah. I love that you highlighted that. I was laughing because yep. Nobody likes that, uh, part about go slower, but it really is so true. And I’m, it brought to mind, you know, I actually, I previously dealt with Lyme disease and chronic fatigue and a whole host of issues. And I had found brain retraining work a couple years ago, I think four or five years ago. And it was one of those things that I immediately knew this is what I need. And it was also this feeling of, can it be this simple, but I’ve really learned along the years it really can.

It’s just truly what you highlighted. It’s going slower and being consistent and knowing that the work is going to be cumulative And that’s where I like to say like healing happens in micro shifts not breakthroughs. And so it was when I got a couple years into it that I was realized, wow, I’m really not even dealing with all these symptoms that I used to deal with in these issues, but it was that consistency and those small habits. And, and that work is just, we have to keep in mind that so many of these habits that we’ve picked up, we’ve had our whole lives.

So to be able to unravel and kind of write a new script is going to take time. And so when you say with your institute that you founded, do you typically work with clients over, is it usually like a year or two years? I mean, how long would you say that you usually encourage people to be with the process? And I know it’s individual, but what has been your experience?

Yeah, well, one of the things that we do differently than other like coaching programs and practices is we don’t have packages. So we’re like, okay, you’re going to come to us for 6 months and, you know, and for some people that works right where they’re like, I have this time I want to give to it and and whatnot.

But we found again, that the individualized approach works really, really well, because everybody and every body is very, very different in terms of what their needs are. And so, you know, there’s a lot of different factors. I would say, you know, on average, we, our clients probably they’re going to come to us for a year, year and a half, two years. And they’re going to be able to, and then come back, you know, when they need to for like checkups and things like that.

But I think that if there is that consistency where, where they are trying, they’re doing this in their own life, I think that’s the biggest thing. Like we are trying to work ourselves out of a job essentially. And one of the ways that we really approach things and the reasons that we chose coaching as modality is because we’re interested in wellness rather than the medical model of symptom reduction and alleviation, things like that.

And so to that end, the modalities that we use, we try to be able to make the, or we try to use ones that our clients can take out of this session and do them at home. They don’t need to have me there. So like I am certified in EMDR and I know, myself included, and other people have had many great experiences, but you need a trained professional technically to do EMDR with you. Whereas I am also certified in somatic experiencing and sure, I might be able to teach you some things, but ultimately then you’re going home and you can do this yourself. You have your body. The biggest tool that you need is your body and to be able to tune into it. And so I can help you do that.

So, you know, I, we don’t have then back to that point of like, we don’t have like a, hey, you need to come to this many sessions over this length of time. It really is individualized, but I will say that the more a person is bought into it and saying like, hey, I, I do have to do the homework. In between sessions, like this is not just about an hour every week that I dip into this. Like this is about the 10,030 other minutes between our sessions and that if they’re doing the work there, that is when we say that question, if we go slower so that we can go faster. That’s how we go faster. Totally is when you’re bringing it into your everyday life.

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I love that you highlighted that in between work, because I utilize the same with clients and I’m like, you don’t have to do this, but it’s really going to be so helpful. And also for what you mentioned of, I see myself as just a facilitator of the work. Like, you know, I want people to be energetically engaged and to have that exchange. And, you know, I think one of the things that so much of us are used to seeing with the medical model is just, you know, tell me what I need to know? Do you show me all the things? Be my healer. Be the person directing me. And it’s, I don’t want that for anybody I work with. And I think that always just didn’t resonate with me working in the hospital. And as you know, in an office with patients, it was just like, no, I want you to know that you are your greatest healer. And, uh, I want you to feel that I can support you in that. And I help, I’m helping you to facilitate that.

Sorry, my dog is going crazy. I don’t know if you can hear her in the background.

I can’t, but I was laughing because I was like, this is all good.

She has literally been barking this entire time and I don’t know why.

I couldn’t hear her. Great. It’s fine. She’s just wanting to share too. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So I…

but to your point, yes.

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I feel like that is one of the things that we need to shift within moving forward.

Yes.

This whole system, even in the holistic health healing world is like, just because you follow someone on social media, that doesn’t make them in any way your main go to like at the end of the day how are you doing the work? And I think that is one of the hardest things to equip people to want to do for themselves, is understanding that they have the worth and the value, uh to do that. And so I love that.

Yeah.

I lighted that in between work and I know you’re coming out with your first book, which I’m very excited about because I am hoping to be a writer soon with just a couple things I’ve been putting together. And so this is on my three to five year bucket list. I want to hear with your book.

Love it.

Yeah, I want to hear with your book just what we can expect and what was some of the inspiration here. And I know it’s coming out soon, so I’m excited for you. That’s huge.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So, so this book is kind of, okay. So it is about religious trauma and healing from it. It is less about, let me tell you all the things that could be problematic about religion and more about here’s how this can impact our bodies and what does it look like to live a healing life? Um, I really believe that healing is an ongoing process. That does not mean we have to be in the nitty gritty, you know, in our therapist’s office, at the doctor, whatever, all day, every day for every season of our life. But this idea of like, every moment can be a healing moment, where we make different choices or we engage with a different coping mechanism or turn a different direction or head towards connection or whatever it might be.

And so the book kind of research is based off of my doctoral research, which I actually, um, was researching, I kind of honed it in a little bit more and I did the experience of living in a healing body after sexualized violence and trauma with the inclusion of what people in a lot of post religious spaces called purity culture, um, which is like an abstinence only type culture. And so that was kind of the basis of my doctoral research, but it was very easy then to then expand that research out to more like trauma in general complex trauma, and of course religious trauma. So I do spend a few chapters at the very beginning of the book, laying out what is trauma? What is spiritual abuse? Adverse religious experiences? And what is this thing called the nervous system?

Um, and I do this because I want to make sure that there’s a foundation for understanding kind of like what is happening and what’s happening in my body? Why, why does this even matter that we’re talking about this? And then the next 9 chapters are what I call themes of healing. So we look at a variety of different, um, themes, everything from like a cognitive deconstruction process, like deconstructing your identity, your beliefs, your value system, things like that to embodiment, relationships, sexuality, grieving, boundaries, emotions, like just kind of hopefully like hitting the gamut.

But my premise when I began my research for my, uh, dissertation was trauma, like impacts us on a multidimensional levels. And so therefore healing needs to address multiple dimensions as well. Because there’s all these areas that are a little bit shattered when we experience these, um, whether they’re singular events or over time. Um, these experiences of threat and overwhelm. So yeah, it’s, um, each chapter kind of looks at like, how does high control religion view kind of this area? So if we’re looking at boundaries, for example, high control religion looks at them very much as rules and prescriptive. And we tell you what to do and think rather than teaching you how to think, how to be curious, how to employ critical thinking.

And so if this is what kind of religion might do then here’s kind of some natural outcomes where we become very used to like shifting our locus of control outward. And, and not being able to tune into ourselves and have a sense of intuition or direction. And so as we’re healing, that’s something that we’re developing and that’s a lifetime thing. Here’s a new way to look at boundaries. Here’s some ways that we can implement that. Here’s how we implement curiosity, um, you know, on a day to day basis. And so it’s not prescriptive of here’s what you have to do, but it’s giving an open path to say, here’s some of the markers that you’re going to start to see, as you are healing.

And this is lifelong and it’s not about getting to this specific point at the end of the race and saying there, I’m done, I finished, I’ve healed, right? It’s about, again, it’s about saying healing is this lifelong process where we make tiny little different shifts and choices and it’s in the nuanced moments. The small, tiny quiet moments where we start to see like, oh, I am living as a healing individual. So that’s kind of the premise for the book and I’m excited about it. I don’t think there’s anything like it out there in terms of like specifically for religious trauma. When my literary agent approached me, she said, I want like a Body Keeps The Score for religious trauma. And I was like, Oh gosh, that is like a very tall order.

Yeah. So it’s been fun to see, like, um, you know, like on Amazon, you can go see, like, here’s my book and then here’s the other books that are like it or whatever. And to see like, oh, they’re putting me with people like, like Bessel van der Kolk and Judith Herman and Peter Levine, all these people that I’m like, I’ve learned so much from. And I’m like, well, wow, this is, this is a big deal. So, um, I’m really hopeful that it becomes a resource for people just simply because there is nothing really out there.

I just got chills the whole time you were talking and I, I can’t wait to go look on Amazon. I was just thinking of how you mentioned with having just looking at attachments and boundaries and, and it’s almost like as you’re doing this healing process, and you know, I think this is why it can be so scary for people because we start to rediscover ourselves and really discover who we came here to be and our giftings and our passions.

And so often many of the people that I work with and, and help them with their health, they feel like so many of these things that were their giftings were just shut down because of just people not understanding and not fear the, you know, being controlled by fear. And I, and these people are just so excited to rediscover so much of their passions and things that they love and things that they felt like they couldn’t fully embody.

And, uh, it always makes me think of just how kids come into this world. And I have three boys and, um, you know, I feel like kids are just the perfect example of just how they just live before all the conditioning and all the programs. And all the things that they hear, they’re just being and they’re in the moment and they have incredible gifts that often get judged as bad behavior. Or, you know, it’s more about our own lens that we’re looking at it through. And you know, that has for sure been um, one of my greatest teachers is just learning that ability to be completely free and in tune from my kids. And, um, you know, I’m just so excited for your work to be out there because as you mentioned, and, and I can’t think of anything, you know, that really is bringing this topic to conversations. And I think it’s a huge barrier in people’s healing. Just that spiritual wellbeing and feeling also that they can, you know, in no way are you saying to not have a space for religion in your life, right? It’s finding, finding the health with it.

Yeah, I always tell people I’m very, very clear about this. I am not anti religion, but I am anti oppression, anti power and control, anti abuse, anti harm, things like that. So if you can find a religion or religious practices, faith practices, spirituality, things like that, that don’t include that, I think that’s beautiful. I think, great, go for it. Up until the last probably five to seven years most of the, the loudest voices in what we might consider religious trauma spaces that we didn’t, there really wasn’t a lot of formal, you know, kind of words and titles around it or whatever. But most of the people that kind of spoke the loudest in those spaces were voices that were saying, the way that you heal from this is to become an atheist and to just basically reject religion, pathologize religion, um, and, and just get rid of it. And basically just move to the other side of the spectrum and become this staunch atheist.

Now for some people that may be exactly what they need to do. And that’s great. I think when we require that, that is what you have to do in order to heal, we are becoming just as controlling as we were on the other side of it, just with like a little bit of a different message. And so part of this process of healing really is like coming back into yourself. I believe that we have inherent goodness to come back to. Um, that maybe it was suppressed and fragmented for whatever reasons. Um, but it’s still there at our core. And part of that healing is remembering that and coming back into that.

And so that might lead some people down the path of religion or atheism or spirituality or agnosticism or somewhere in between or nowhere, like, that’s all okay. And I think that’s the beauty of healing is letting go of some of those, like vice grips around certainty and, you know, really binary or dualistic thinking. And going like, I’m, I’m letting, I’m letting other people show up as themselves and I’m going to show up as myself and there’s going to be difference and there’s going to be choices. But that is actually what makes life very beautiful because we’re not the same person and, and I like that.

Yeah, totally. And I was just thinking I’m reading a book right now. It’s whatever, it’s the sequel to four agreements. I think it’s the five levels of attachment. It’s either four levels of attachment or five levels of attachment, but it’s just helping to understand these attachments that you have to expectations, beliefs, thought patterns.

And it really is such a, it makes me think of what you’re saying with just, it’s such a journey and just a healing process and understanding it. Letting yourself be curious, letting yourself continue to unpack any of these programs that not necessarily that there’s anything bad or negative, like you’re saying, even with religion, it doesn’t have to be this extreme. It’s just allowing for this curiosity and coming back to yourself and connecting with that intuition. And then we’re all showing up as our highest vibration, right, you know?

Um, so I’m, I’m so excited about your book and something that I always love to ask everybody who comes on the podcast is three words that you would use. And if it’s more like a sentence, that’s totally fine. But three words that you would use to describe what health and healing mean in your life right now. Thank you.

In my life right now? Oh, I definitely think intentionality, curiosity, and what would be my third one? Um, this is going to sound weird, but like basic, is as in basic needs.

Oh, I love it. Yeah. Great.

Yeah. Yeah. I think sometimes we get in to these spaces of like healing all these things and we forget things like eating, drinking enough water, moving our bodies, sleeping. And I’m like, we forget at how essential those things are towards just full living, whole living. Um, and so I’m, that’s something I’m trying to focus on. And I bet like, that’s been the focus of my entire year of 2023 is like, okay. You just need to eat enough. That’s, that’s your goal for the day. Just eat enough, move your body, drink your water, go to sleep. And, um, yeah, so there’s intentionality behind that too. Um, but yeah, intentionality, curiosity, and basic or basic needs.

I love it. Basic needs. I don’t think anyone will ever use that exact response, but yeah, it is so good. And it’s so true. You know, I think that is where health gets so overcomplicated is looking at, I just need to be doing this. I need to be doing more, all of these things when it’s really those simple basic, like honoring our own basic human needs. That is just so essential. So I love that. I love that you share that.

Yeah. Dr. Laura, I’m so glad that you were able to come on today and share your time and your wisdom with us. And I’m really excited to be able to connect, uh, your book with everybody who’s listening in. And so I’ll definitely make sure to have that linked in the show notes and how else can people connect with you?

Yeah. Well, the best way to find me is, uh, at my Instagram, which is Dr. Laura E. Anderson. Um, I think I’m on TikTok. But I don’t really know. Um, my, my social media person takes care of that. I’m like one of those elder millennials who’s like not quite sure what to do with that. Um, but that’s also my website where everything is listed. Um, if you want to, if you’re interested in working with a coach on things like religious trauma, cults, fundamentalism, purity, culture; www.traumaresolutionandrecovery.com. Trauma, resolution and recovery is our Instagram handle as well. And so we have everything there. Um, and if you just hit like the little links, you can see, you can see everything, you know, podcasts, books, all the things.

Yeah. I visited your website and I was like, you’ve been up to a lot of stuff. There’s so much great stuff on your site.

Yeah.

Yeah. Perfect. It’s so funny. I feel the same with TikTok. I’m like, I think I’m on there. I don’t know. I post every few months. Yeah. It’s there’s a lot. All right. So, so nice to connect with you. Thank you so much for hopping on and I can’t wait to be able to read your book. So thanks so much, dr. Laura.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much, you guys, for listening to the show. I’m so glad you’re here.

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